Our shame before nature. Or, we can look into the eyes of ancients - An interview with Justin Moffitt

I met Justin at a neighbor and friend’s solar eclipse party and learned that he lives around the corner from me. We got talking and he told me that he had volunteered years earlier for turtle conservation. So, I asked if I could interview him about his experience. A young man wise well beyond his age, and with so much to offer. I’m proud to see the “Resist Fascism” sign on his lawn every time I walk by with my dog.

Justin: …what I'm hearing is you want to make the relationship between [people] and the plight of the flora and fauna and the world more intimate.

I don't know if you watch documentaries. So, there's one on palm oil. Very good. I watched it through because I like Leonardo DiCaprio, and I found it surprising that an A-list actor would take such a what I thought mundane concern so seriously. [Today] I would never buy anything with palm oil, ever, ever. I criticize friends. I go into my friend's bathrooms to see if there's palm oil in there. I was so wrong.

Ashwin: And what did it for you?

JM: What did it for me? Well, number one, I've been there. I've been to Borneo. And they hide it. They fake it. Half a mile down every riverbank is natural native rainforest. At that half-mile mark, the problem begins and goes as far as you can see. If you're not in the air, you don't know. I was there for three weeks. I saw it, but I didn't. I didn't see it like that. And the fact that I was on the f-----g island and didn't know that was happening, it's embarrassing. I'm embarrassed for them, and I'm embarrassed for myself and our race for decimating an island …and hiding it with smoke and mirrors. I'm not a dumb guy, but I was down there. Where else have I been down? Where else have I not seen it?

AB: And to you, what was the impact of the palm oil?

JM: The orangutans will be dead. They will be gone in our lifetime, without question. They will exist in zoos and zoos only. They have a half a mile strip on a riverbank. We're not very good stewards of this world. I wouldn't even use the word stewards. We're rapists.

AB: And what drew you into turtles, into turtle conservation?

JM: Oh. It's kind of funny. So, let's say you were in Willy Wonka's chocolate land. Everything in there is interesting. It tastes good. How do you obsess over one thing in the whole place? If he looks at you and he goes, "You can touch all this except for this." And he walks away. What do you do? "Why can't I touch that?" All of that disappears. When I started diving, the creatures that I would come in close contact with were a lot of fish, a lot of eels, and turtles. Turtles are the not only ones, but [are] the majority of the creatures under the sea that are protected in every country… “Don't f--k with the turtles.”

JM: So I was told so often, "Don't f--k with the turtles." And I stumbled upon so many turtle conservancies that I was like, "Well, there's something to this. Otherwise, either we're all dumb and turtles are just cute—and they're not that cute, you know--or, there's something actually to it.”

And that's when I realized that they are ancient. They live into their hundreds. Innocent. I've looked into their eyes. I've looked into the eyes of ancient, ancient turtles. And innocuous. You can't say those three things about many species. So, I respect them. Just like I respect the tree [the giant sequoia he told me about named General Sherman that is 2,300–2,700 years old]. Just like I respect the whales.

AB: Did you see any part of yourself in the turtles you worked with, or the opposite of you, the qualities you don't have for better or worse?

JM: So, I don't know if you've ever truly felt unexpected humbleness out of the blue. All of a sudden, something is said, something is done. Something you experience makes you nearly drop to your knees in being humble. That's what they did. That's what they did to me.

Where you can't not be floored by their gentle humbleness, so much so that you feel affected. And they are huge. You are nothing. You are a big ball of ego and some water. That's it. Nothing. All of our trials and tribulations, all of it--just look into their eyes. We're the same. Get over ourselves. We're the same. I saw the same in the eyes of the gorillas in the mist in Rwanda. 300 left of them on the planet. I looked into their eyes.

AB: So, you sort of learned more about them. You saw them. And then why did you get involved in conserving them?

JM: Well, I fell into it. My brother is the real one who got me into it. And I had no interest. And the only reason I started diving was because he broke up with his ex-girlfriend a week before they were supposed to go on a diving trip to Mexico for a wedding. But he's the real underwater conservationist. We were raised being taught that we are stewards of this earth. It does not belong to us. You can't own land any more than you can own a person. You can pretend. But at the end of the day, whether you own it or you simply live on it, you have to take care of it. And I hate to use this because it's a quote from Justin Bieber. The grass isn't always greener on the other side, it's green where you water it. Same thing with just taking care of ourselves, our bodies, and the world around us. You shouldn't treat the tree any different than I treat you, and you treat me, our neighbors, the animals, the flora and fauna. We're all trying to do the same thing. Some of us are having a better time than others. And back to the turtles. They're just cool. Of all the endangered species, I think turtles are one of my favorites.

…There are some great programs. This one in Malaysia. What they do--they go around the island, they ask the poachers how much money they get for a nest of eggs. They heard $33, and they said, "We'll give you $100." Those poachers bring those nests of eggs right up to their front door. They happily hand them a $100 bill, bury them on their private beach to ensure that the turtles make it into the water where they belong.

AB: So, you got into it? Your brother was into it then?

JM: He was already, and I just was along for the ride and ended up falling in love.

AB: And have they stayed with you? Have you tried to follow their teachings?

JM: I would liken them to… I know who it is. John Lewis [the US civil rights leader]. John Lewis, who walked across the bridge in Selma. Being in his presence, feeling him, I liken to a turtle. They can say so much with one or even no words. You just feel it. Just like when I looked in the eyes of that gorilla, I just felt it. We spoke the same language. They too. Innocence. Innocence and purity.

AB: It sounds like you value those.

JM: I do. I truly do. Innocence and purity. Despite all odds.

…I have seen turtles on every continent. I have seen leatherbacks in Costa Rica. I've seen Hawksbills and greens everywhere. The thing they have in common is they're slow. They take their time. I like that. That's what it is.

AB: Are you trying to do that a little bit more for yourself?

JM: Anything worth doing is worth taking your time... I respect them. Being in the presence of a creature so old is quite a humbling experience.

Gorillas in the mist. $1,500 an hour. Literally. And I said to my friend, Lisa, "You're crazy. I'm not paying that." She said, "we're never going to be here again”, and I said to our guide, "why the hell is this so damn expensive?" He said, "you see those guys with the guns?" 18 of them. “Yeah.” “They used to kill the gorillas. They're poachers. We went to them and said, ‘How much do you make killing gorillas?’ and we tripled it. That's why you pay." And I said, "and I am happy to do so."

I saw an amalgam of people summoned, like lab coats. And our guide came over and said, "would you mind if that woman and her husband go ahead of us because they have to carry a hospital bed up the mountain?" Now, it's a three-hour trek without a hospital bed. They hired six porters to carry a hospital bed. It was the last thing she wanted to do in life, see the gorillas, and then die. And I said, "Go. Take all the time you need." Coming back down the mountain, I passed her. I said, "Did you see your gorillas?" She said, "I did."

AB: And I can bet you the gorillas understood.

JM: Those gorillas are timeless. I think that's the best word to summarize the tree and the turtles and the gorillas.

AB: And why is that important to you?

JM: Because we're not. At least I don't feel it, and I'd like to be more like that. Unmovable. Timeless. And I don't mean unmovable wisdom-wise, unmovable as in a monolith of--you know, we stand on their shoulders. They don't stand on ours. This is their world. We're just running.

AB: Do you have a favorite animal or did you have one?

JM: No, I believe that every animal is special in its own way. …I think my biggest thing is that they when I say they, I mean the flora and fauna that are dying off. They don't have a voice in our world. But their voice in their world is way louder than any of ours. Way louder. So, I want us to listen to them because what they have to say is way more profound than any politician or celebrity on the TV.

AB: What do you think they're saying? What are some of the things? What does that tree say to you? What does that turtle [say]?

JM: Temperance, forgiveness, patience. The thing I felt most was a hand on my chest saying, "Stop trying to race to what it is that you think you need to accomplish and just keep a steady pace forever…It's not about what you are or how advanced you are. It's about your ability to find happiness in what you have. Period.

We're taught to, you know—the rat race. You constantly race to whatever it is that you set your goal to be. But you know when you look at great conservationists, they never succeeded by racing to anything. Jacques Cousteau, lifelong. Diane Fossey, lifelong… You can't watch a show about cats, cry and donate $10 and then you're done. So, education, true altruistic education without a hidden angle. If you have true altruism with honest, like-minded people, you will have a wildfire…And that's what we need if this world has any chance of—if we have any chance of surviving.

…I met a woman at the dog park three months ago. She said she dumpster dives for her dogs. I was like “scary.” She said, "No, no. Look”. She shows me pictures. Brand new dog food, collars, leashes. I came home and told Chris. I said, "I'm going to drive over to P______." I was there for eight hours. My mother volunteers at an animal shelter up in my home county. I called her. I said, "I have 65 bags of food unopened. They don't expire for the end of 2025. I have cans, canned food. I have all this stuff." And I called her when I was in the dumpster. And all of a sudden, I got really upset and I started crying.

She said, "Are you okay?" And I pulled myself together, and I said, "I am okay, but I'm f------g embarrassed that this is what we've become." I don't want to be represented like this. I don't want to choose to participate in this. And if anything, I will do everything I can to stop this. I didn't know about it until this moment, but now that I know, I'm coming for them.

I said to my mother, "Why don't they donate this? She said, "I've talked to them. They would lose their jobs if they didn't throw it out." So, you know what I did? I look at the camera and I say, "I understand that you can't donate this to people who can't afford to feed their pets because you would lose your job talking to a camera. But I can. I'll be here every Tuesday. If you could do me a favor, put the food on top, please. Don't put it under the pallets. Help me, help you.” You know what? They put it on top. My mom said, "You're crazy. You're going to go to jail." I said, "No, I'm not." They know. I said, "These are going to my mom." She volunteers at a shelter. It was showing up on top of the power.

When I called her the first time, I was so upset, so upset that it had been going on for God knows how long, right under my nose. And she said, "You don't know until you know.” You can either find out or be shown. But you cannot kick yourself if you didn't know.

AB: Yeah, so perfectly put.

JM: And that echoed in my head across so many different things, even racism, you know, sexism. Just pay more attention. Justin, pay more attention. Listen more. Talk less. Look around. It was eye-opening. That was like three months ago. And to this day, I dumpster dive.

She's been volunteering with the same SPCA, I think, for two years. Very dear to her heart. She was walking the dogs. She's small and they would drag her down and she would sprain her wrist, her ankles. So, my brother calls, told her that she was going to hurt herself. And she said, "I'm doing this for the dogs." Thousands of these dogs come through. Very dear to her heart.

So, she calls me the next day: "I just got called up to the front. Angie, the front desk girl, called me up front and said, "Do you know Justin?" I said, "That's my son." She said, "Did you know that he was going to make a donation?" I [had] called her and I said, "You do you, boo-boo. You do you all day long. I'm proud of you." She said [to Angie], "After the conversation last night, I figured he'd call in with a few bucks. Why?" And the woman said, "Oh, well, do you know how much he donated? Five grand. We have a standing policy that if a donation is made in the name of an employee, that employee gets to decide how it's spent. So, what do you want to spend it on?" My mom was like shell shocked over the whole thing.

I said, "You get to decide where it's spent?! Well, girl, do it!" She said, "I already decided. Too many dogs come through here and get put down because they don't have teeth over here and their tongue hangs out." Or their nose was half bitten off…and they looked disfigured.” I said, "Take that money and make them pretty." And they did. They did. They fixed the cleft palates and the half noses. Still to this day… She said, "Make 'em pretty." So, I come from good stock. She is ancient. Ancient.

Photo by Miriam Pereira on Unsplash